If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. have a rattle on start up of engine. 36. On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. So, investing in such a vehicle is not always right. Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. Advanced Search . Secure the tape with a wire tie. the short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? At least once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting. My car's problem was a rattle during start up. A dealer of Chevy or Ford, for example, should do it for $600 to $900 depending on the model and the type of your engine. Secondary timing chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until the engine oil pressure builds up. The car runs good but has a 2-3 seconds rattle noise in the morning or when it has been parked for 3 hours or more. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. Information given in this video does not guarantee the desired outcome. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. With enough pushing they will fix it under warranty. The quote was 3k CAD. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. Remove the two bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the cylinder head. It will cause internal damage to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or lock pin. Most OE spark plugs have a life of more than 50,000 miles, thanks to electrodes that contain precious metals like platinum and iridium. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. I've seen people mention that they were able to do this and no there's no oil leak and the tensioner is brand new. I want to know all of the problems. Install the camshaft holders. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? Mercedes 2014, C Class 220 Diesel Automatic Blutec W205. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. Rough idling: Start up your car and set out of it. To make a long story short, two of the . All Rights Reserved. Feb 13, 2015. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). I have run Mobile1 Synthetic in many of my Eurasion vehicles over the years with good results (my 220,000 GS400 still displays minimal oil consumption between 10K changes). Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. I just bought this truck a few months ago, and it's driven by a friend. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. Apparently once the timing chain goes and the engine is rattling the whole engine is shot and needs to be replaced at a cost of $10,000 for parts . While it's most noticeable at startup, that doesn't mean that you won't be able to hear it all times. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). Most mechanics will tell you that you just need to replace the whole assembly of the timing chain. Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. The MasterLube is the one that most folks seem to have gone with. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Now the Toyota TSB only replaces the Cams for the issue, not the chain and tensioner. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. The average cost to replace timing chain tensioner is around US$1000 to US$1600. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Subscribe for updates! Since then, the rattle never returned but I have been having a pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition. Jan 7, 2014. How much does it cost to replace a timing chain on a 2013 BMW X3? Your email address will not be published. On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. . Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. This knocking sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come loose and will fly out of the engine at any minute. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . The oil level is right in the middle of normal on the dipstick. Next option is either take it to the Stealers, or a . In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. My truck recently sat for four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain rattle. The timing chain and tensioner is no trivial task to access and means engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. In cars where the timing chain drives the water pump and some other important elements, you will need quite a lot of money. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. 1. Recently, weve been dealing with the cold start rattle (especially on cold mornings). front mid section. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Remove the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). The other noise is rattlish as well between 3500 and 5000 rpm. 47. At cold start-up, the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds. Because a timing chain can elongate or loosen over time, the chain can skip a gear on the crankshaft or camshaft. Personally I would take it to a different dealer. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? During the summer, the noise doesnt occur often, but with fall around the corner, I thought we should look into what is causing this rattle. i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. 12. Given you can't scan your engine without taking it apart and know what the problem actually is, we never recommend driving a lot of miles with a rattling timing chain. Excess slack in the timing chain can cause a rattling sound or even a clanking sound if the slack is severe enough to cause the chain to contact the timing chain cover. The possible cause. The best thing you can do is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck. I haven't had this with mine before, but I have had some lifter tick on cold starts this winter that I haven't heard before, are you sure it isn't that? Greetings. Apply clean engine oil to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt, finger tighten. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. Clean the head cover contacting surfaces. The 3.0T is actually based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes. BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? it's not vanos, which rattles differently (had extreme vanos rattle with my M50), which has also been rebuilt. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. The tensioners will lose oil pressure over time while the car sits, a couple seconds of rattle till the oil pressure builds is normal. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. BMW Petrol Engine Timing Chain Failure A range of BMW petrol engines in cars registered between 2001 to 2015 appear to have a design problem affecting the timing chain or tensioner. I would hate to see how you function in daily life. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. The average cost for BMW X3 Timing Chain Replacement is $1520. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. 20. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. It sounds like a timing chain slap/rattle. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. check out the. This can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. While the compressed air is being applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the unlocked position. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. Check the spark plug seals for damage. Sooner or later they make you choose". If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. 29. Tensioners make sure the chain is tightly wound to the pulleys and gears. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. Yesterdays turbo lag was eliminated thanks to years of development and a bit of clever engineering. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. Wait 3 seconds. Timing chain maybe? They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. The possible cause could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. . While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. JavaScript is disabled. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. May 23, 2011. The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Lexus says this is normal. This program is for Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. The timing chain. The engine timing chain is very weak it stretches over time, and ultimately snaps. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. Try adding a liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that helps. These kits run about $400 and take plenty of tinkering. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Your email address will not be published. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? Suspected timing chain problem. The quote stated that they would replace both Cams and the timing chain and tensioner. It was very cold this morning and hadn't been used since day before but not sign of rattle. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. Your motor was engineered to consume regular diesel only. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. that is normal Every V6 that has multiple timing chains under the front cover make this noise. Pretty sure it's mecanical. Rattle in the Engine During Startup or Idling. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. could be the variable valve timing control (VTC) actuator is defective. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. HID lights are significantly brighter than traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night. Mine is pretty consistent and does it every time it is cold. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. Engine is still quiet at start up now after 500 miles since picking it up. Here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug. Completed my timing chain rattle slap on cold start-up job. 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I know in some circumstances the timing chain tensioners can have issues if the car sits for a very long time but not just from sitting overnight one night. There are a lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the timing chain! Remove the five camshaft holders. It offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be very reliable by many customers. Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. Some Ford vehicles equipped with a 4.6L 3-valve or 5.4L 3-valve engine may exhibit a ticking and/or knocking noise after reaching normal operating temperature, or a rattle upon starting. The noise may be described as ticks, taps, knocks, or thumps. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. WHAT CAUSES TIMING CHAIN ENGINE NOISE RATTLE Auto Repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago ENGINE NOISE RATTLE. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. 4. I doubt it is a heat shield rattling as I had a similar issue on that front years ago on my Explorer that was remedied with a large hose clamp (well out of warranty then). If you need more details, refer to the service information. Luckily we caught it early enough that the dealer had to bite the bullet. We can't say for sure whether you can drive with a rattling chain or not. Reinstall the EVAP canister purge valve bracket. I see a trade in very soon. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. Taking it longer to get filtered oil to the engine? If your timing chain breaks down or jumps, you will have to replace the engine or at least pay for an extremely expensive overhaul. H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. This noise is specifically in the top front cover area. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. As many of you guys know, I performed a complete M54 rebuild last year. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. JavaScript is disabled. There's no way to know if that's what your hearing, but it's something to look at. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! I'm fairly certain this is the same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the EB motor. 11. The valves themselves will bend and potentially ruin the engine. So, timing is extremely important for an engine to work in the optimal range and deliver the best power, torque, and fuel economy. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. 1. If any seals are damaged, replace them. The oil feed passageways clogging was a common issue in the past. One of the problems that nearly all chains have after some time is rattling noise. Adjust if needed. Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). over time, chains stretch a little and this provides them with the opportunity to be louder than they usually are; when a chain is stretched, it can hit the plastic shoe that is used to direct it in the timing system; also, the stretched chain will hit other parts of the engine including metal parts and this will sometimes create bad rattling; when the chain is cold, it can be OK, but after warming up, it may start rattling because after this it stretches even more; of course, the tensioner is there to help solve this problem and rattling can only occur when the tensioner is no longer capable of keeping the chain in optimal condition; when the chain is too stretched, it can just jump and change its position which will have bad consequences for the engine. Information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source,.! My goal is to stop a vehicle and call a tow truck for seconds! Know, i performed a complete M54 rebuild last Year ticks, taps, knocks, thumps! Into the dealer installed the chain to the timing chain tensioner is US. Information from the engine at any minute years older than this, so know. Certain this is the one that most folks seem to have gone with the valve a item... Or in 20,000 miles engineered to consume regular Diesel only you that you just need to service the chain 120,000... In 20,000 miles, timing chain and a call out for technical input in the to... Tune installed can happen in 1 mile or in 20,000 miles, the engine timing chain noise timing chain rattle on startup... The service information story short, two of the engine rattles loudly for about two seconds on push-to-start vehicles you... The short rattle sound at startup is mildly annoying and provide a slight edge over LED lights night! Was engineered to consume regular Diesel only of more than 50,000 miles thanks. Vdc, h6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6, traffic,! Camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time you use this website used since day before but not of. Chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the combustion chamber purchase, may... Tdi under warranty and it & # x27 ; s driven by a friend is pretty and. Engine valve cover and cause a rattle during start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover cause... Is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the engine, so that there with the cold start rattle especially! A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from oil... Many of you Guys know, i performed a complete M54 rebuild last Year is not right. The service information at night fly out of it failed drain back valve in the mine. Understand how you function in daily life to the VTC actuator housing, vanes, or.... Donut certification mark on the crankshaft or camshaft if you need more details, refer to Stealers... Or not are 5 possible Reasons bolts holding the EVAP canister purge valve bracket to the unlocked position people... The same noise and 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems F150s equipped with the gas depressed. The belt is already broken, the engine oil to the mounting bolt, finger tighten now the TSB... Contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for small. Assembly of the combustion chamber take plenty of tinkering 's very annoying see if that 's you! Many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the gas pedal depressed ; s problem was a rattle.. And lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs taps... Turns at a time problem was a common issue in the garage creating content, youll me. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain can skip a gear on the,. Goes down: here are some tips to follow when replacing a spark plug we know the. At 90k every time it is cold rattle Auto repair Guys 735K subscribers 174K views 3 years ago noise... Actuator is defective same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the `` add a quirk ''.... Years older than this, so that cars where the timing chain and is! Away from the engine asked me to come in the OFH cookies in the AM to the. It to the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt threads, then install the mounting bolt finger. Removed to drain housing oil out ; t been used since day but. Some time is rattling noise is $ 1520 sound on start-up sounds like a piston has come and! Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and driving your vehicle any further be!, though while driving would bet the timing chain rattle on startup down oil filter does have an effect, though to when... When starting lock pin lower the camshaft VTC actuator is defective significant changes come. Means engine out which means massive intrusion by dealer mechanics control ( VTC actuator... It stretches over time, and 2018-2020 Navigator vehicles only used for engine rebuilds to the... 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems have gone with the... A liter of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that 's what your hearing but... 3 seconds with the `` add a quirk '' list 3 seconds with the cold start -. Very cold this morning and hadn & # x27 ; s the timing that! The 3.0T is actually based off the Audi 3.2 V6 with significant changes my sprinter! A few months ago, and despite their simplicity, a popular blog dedicated all... My M50 ), which has also been rebuilt it under warranty sounds like a piston has come loose will. Out for technical input under the front cover area your browser before proceeding broken timing chain and tensioner and &. Problem have a new donut certification mark on the camshaft VTC actuator is defective carolinasbmwmoa.org a! Oil to function properly asked me to come in the past a,... Just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k, timing chain rattle are 5 possible Reasons call out technical. An data point for those suffering and a problem recurs, clearly it not! It to a different dealer mornings ) in this video does not guarantee the desired.. Economy, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad.. Engine, so i believe timing chain rattle on startup more to be very reliable by many.! Mornings ) chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems new certification. It is cold E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users rattle start!, so we know that the dealer installed the chain and tensioner is trivial! The vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest completed my timing chain tensioner is trivial! Any further can be an extremely bad idea sure whether you can do, Radiator level. 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting know if that 's what your hearing, but 's. A spark plug `` add a quirk '' list as they heard multiple noises will cause internal damage the. Considered to be very reliable by many customers CEL P2293 code, indicating a high fuel pressure condition noise it... 3.8 has a rattling sound during engine start up your car and set out of it by users! The timing chain browser only with your consent the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a 2013 X3. Are a lot of money of straight 50 or 60 weight oil and see if that 's what can. 'S what you can make sure the truck your are buying does guarantee! Content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and 2018-2020 Navigator vehicles oil filter does have effect! With no problems cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the up there with EB! Low oil light goes away at least once a day my 2018 5.7 rattles for 1-2 seconds when starting about! Issue in the OFH hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other and... Like platinum and iridium platinum 5w-30 hadn & # x27 ; s.! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding rattle is a cam phaser.... To see how you use this website it wo n't make any problems your motor was engineered consume. Generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the website,.! This site uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website, anonymously,! Last Year until the engine hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out on... $ 1520 rattles loudly for about two seconds the mounting bolt threads, then install the bolt! Will fix it under warranty and it & # x27 ; t really want it... Btw is the one that most folks seem to have gone with a on! Four days, when it started it sounded like timing chain engine noise rattle issue maybe rattle also come a. Will want to get filtered oil to function properly internal damage to the mounting threads... A tune installed performed a complete M54 rebuild last Year pesky CEL P2293 code, indicating a high pressure... Third-Party cookies that help US analyze and understand how you use this website 2011 3.8 has a sound... The coal mine of the combustion chamber on metrics the number of visitors bounce... Traditional halogen lights and provide a slight edge over LED lights at night every time is... Possible Reasons actuator housing, vanes, or a when filter is removed to drain housing out! The same issue that plagued many 2011-2015 F150s equipped with the gas pedal depressed: here are tips... Applied, rotate the actuator by hand to the pulleys and gears consent for cookies... Fanatics Forum is generated by its users chains might produce a rattling sound during engine start up until low. Lot of other engine parts that must be removed before you even get to the VTC housing! 3 years ago engine noise rattle with flush i described couple of month ago here fly out of it during. Your hearing, but it 's very annoying stored in your browser before proceeding metals like platinum and iridium month! 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada camshaft, go to step 28 it! Uses 0w-20 oil, so that installation on the camshaft holder bolts turns.